Professor Francesca Gino: Rebel Talent – inclusive management

Professor Francesca Gino  0:31  
Hi, everyone, it's such a pleasure to be here. And it's great to receive such generous words from from Tim, I have the pleasure of telling you a little bit about my view on rebel talent and why it's so important to inclusion and inclusive management.

 

I want to start with your story that comes from a group in the Air Force here in the United States, I think that a great story because they come from a context that is heavily regulated, highly hierarchical, very bureaucratic. And also the culture is all about do not change, or do not change what they are, do not rock the boat. And so a few years back, in exactly this context, a new leader came in his nickname is chaos is a true rebel. And it looked at the squadron, mostly pilots flying this type of plane going 70,000 feet above the ground to take pictures for intelligence. And he told them luck. If we wanted to stay true to our mission, which is to be combat ready, we need to do things differently.

 

We need to approach work in a way that is more creative, bring out innovative ideas, then he asked everyone to go and study regulation really carefully. Those were the constraints. But it gave them freedom to think creatively, how to do their work more safely, in different ways that would allow them to reach that mission. Now fast forward is now 2021. If you look back at the work that they've been doing the last few years, and you look at their creative ideas, really impressive. For example, they do contract in more like the private sector rather than the public sector. Some of the pilots wanted to increase the safety by coming up with apps that would be helpful during flight.

 

They knew nothing about programming or software development. And yet, they got to learn by watching YouTube videos taking classes and they came up with really key apps that are used now on flight. What I find most interesting is that this came out of one person coming into the situation. And rather than doing what often leaders do across contexts, which is the equivalent of looking up and waiting for others to change things that would improve our approach to work, the way we work with one another the way we innovate. He rolled up his sleeves and got into actions, he truly understood that he could influence the very people who were part of his team.

 

My book is a rebel is a person who didn't sit with the status quo. He didn't wait for others to bring about change, but he took action in a very courageous way. So let's try to unpack some of the characteristics that are true not only of his situation, but of other people will have the chance to study spend time with and understand to try to identify some of the talents that these rebels seem to have.

 

Let's go to a different context. I want to bring you into the life of a coach in the NBA. Here in the United States. His name is Maurice Cheeks. And in particular I want to tell you about an evening in his life is April 23. In 2003 big night for him is in a bigger Reina ready to watch his steam awfully succeed. It's game three of the 2003 NBA championship. If that meant nothing to you think about a really important game. So imagine what it would feel like to be in his shoes that are 20,000 fans ready to watch the game millions of viewers ready to watch the game from home. You're probably feeling really focused on the game that is about to start.

 

Very excited also about what is about to unfold in front of your eyes. And in that moment that girl was about 13 years old in age walked into the middle of the arena ready to sing the national anthem. Now I have a clip of that moment and I love to share that with you pay attention to what this coach does. And then I want to ask a few questions that I'm hoping are going to trigger some good reflection in all of us. 


Video audio  5:28  
So now to honour America and salute the men and women serving our country with our National Anthem. Please welcome as voted by you the fans our winner of the Toyota 'get the feeling of a star' promotion, Natalie Gilbert


Nathalie Gilbert (singing) 5:50  
Oh, say can you see, by the dawns early light, what so proudly beheld, at the stars... (falters)


Maurice Cheeks (singing) 6:22  
...at the twilight's last gleaming, Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight

Nathalie Gilbert and Maurice Cheeks (singing together) 6:30
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming, And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there, O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave, O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave

Professor Francesca Gino  7:39  
Now, let me ask you a question. Does this guy have a good voice? If you're like me, you're probably thinking Absolutely not. And yet, it took him no time to walk in the middle of the stage in the middle of the arena, and help the girl giving her confidence, but also showing 1000s of fans, millions of viewers that singing is not one of his strengths. In doing what is dead, he made himself vulnerable.

 

He showed others that like them as a human being is not perfect. What is also interesting is that if you saw in the video, by the end of the song, everybody joined in, everybody's singing. And this is interesting, because often when we have the opportunity to make ourselves vulnerable, we decide not to, we fear judgement. We fear there is going to be a negative evaluation coming our way. But it's just the opposite. It's much easier to connect with people, when they show their vulnerability. Rebels do that rebels embrace vulnerability.

 

This allows them not only to bring about change, to be innovative, but also to connect with others at a deeper level. I think that's why if you look at the network, so the inner circles of rebels, they're very diverse, lots of different people that they interact with. And they have really deep meaningful relationship with that allows them to be much more inclusive in the work that they do. They don't fear even having tough conversations. They very much embrace them. Now there is something else that is actually quite peculiar about these rebels that I want to mention. And again, it's an important ingredient to their ability to develop meaningful connections with others of all type.

 

Rebels are curious. They think about getting out of judgement mode, which is very common for all of us, and being inquisitive, asking a lot of questions. And they think of that at the level of every single possible interactions.

 

One of the rebel that I had the opportunity to study and spend time with is an Italian rebel is name is Massimo Bottura is the owner and chef of a restaurant that became famous in the world for becoming the best restaurant in the world in 2016. The name of the restaurant is Osteria Francescana. You find yourself in more than a Italy. And it's interesting that the reason why I started this restaurant in the first place, coming up with inventive ways to cook traditional Italian dishes is that if you're curious, you want to traditional Italian dishes that didn't care for you. And then thirdly, asking why why is it that we cook the dish this way? Maybe my son's 20 years ago, but not today?

 

Well, Curiosity is important to him. And it's very contagious. So everyone working at the restaurant, as approached situation with a lot of curiosity, their work their interactions with a lot of curiosity. One person working in his kitchen as the sous chef is Dakka Dakka is Japanese, since his workforce is very diverse, despite the fact that it's an Italian restaurant and tack is known for being obsessed with attention to detail.

 

On one particular night, at the restaurant, very busy night, Taka was working on the last dessert, he was a lemon tart. And he was carefully arranging all the pieces on the plate and all of a sudden the tart dropped to the floor. And now you're there smashed tart. Taka almost started to panic, not knowing what to do. These desserts are quite expensive, the lemon tart was smashed on the floor. And at that point, Chef Massimo would have walked into the kitchen and saw the mistake. Ask yourself what you would have done in that moment.

 

I can tell you having spent time in all sorts of fancy restaurants, I should say for research purposes, the many people in his role would have started yelling and the mistake. But we did it not only that it looked at the blood on the floor and then up attack.

 

And he said Taka, I think we have a new idea for a new dessert. And sure enough, they come up with a new dessert. It's a deconstructed lemon tart. And I took a picture when I visited the restaurant. It's now the most popular dessert in the restaurant. And the name for it is oops, I dropped the lemon tart. It's interesting that in every situation is in every interaction, even in context where what he sees is potentially a mistake or an accident. But tourism was able to ask the What If? Or how could it be embraces his curiosity.

 

This is deeply important, especially if we want to bring about change. But again, if you want to develop more meaningful connections, with our colleagues, with other people, especially when they're different from us. And one of the projects that I love that came out of the research that I did for the book rebel talent I looked at how is it that curiosity could be triggered in the moment. So my colleagues and I worked with a large Canadian bank. And what we found is that by sending emails to some of the workers over the course of three weeks, we were able to trigger curiosity by just asking men to think about the why and the word F throughout their day at work. And you know what happened after the three weeks where we started the day that was that the people whose curiosity was trigger, were able to have much more diverse networks, they reached out to colleagues of all sorts of types, they collaborated more effectively across silos in a way that was beneficial to them and to their work inside the bank.

 

That's important, especially because if you look at the data, curiosity peaks at age four, and five, and then it declines steadily from there. So we need to be intentional about raising curiosity in ourselves, but also raising it in others. Now, rebels are curious rebels are willing to put themselves out there with vulnerability and authenticity. But rebels are also people who have another important mindset that I want to tell you about. And this time, I want to take you to another different location and also another part of our own history.

 

I want to take you to the 1600s and in particular, I want to tell you about what I discovered in looking at a really peculiar organisations is pirate ships in the 16th century. incredibly fascinating. Everything that I knew about this organization's before I actually went and studied in details and talk to all sorts of historians. I was wrong. There is a lot that we can learn from them. And I'm going to share two ideas that stood out to me.

 

First of all, at a time when he was about 200 years before slavery ended in the United States, pirate ships were the most diverse organisation on the planet. They were getting people to be part of the crew, not because of race or gender, but because of their commitment to the mission, because of their skills, how they wanted to show up and contribute to whatever the ship was trying to achieve.

 

So just for that, they're actually quite interesting. And the get points that in my own book, but there was another reason why this was an organization's that was truly fascinating. The ship was organised in very democratic ways, the crew and a lot of power, the crew was the one in charge of electing the captain. And the crew could also take the captain down, away from his role of leader, if the captain was not behaving well towards the crew. If they were not sharing the booty is equally or they were not treating the crew friendly. Now let's think about it for a moment, because I think that that is quite incredible, because captains leaving on these ships, were asking themselves the same question on a day to day basis. And the question is, am I the type of Captain that my crew chooses his leader? today?

Professor Francesca Gino  16:41  
I think that if we were to ask that question on a more regular basis, we would feel more courageous in modelling rebellious behaviours for others, whether it's curiosity, whether it's vulnerability, whether it's authenticity, whether it's being open to other people's perspective.

 

But also, we will be more intentionally making sure that we're creating the right conditions for people to show up in their work, ready to contribute brings the ideas forwards, and truly connected differently with one another, they would be ready to bring out their best if we in fact, as those captains, we created the right conditions for them. This is a very, I think, inspiring question. But it's also a very humbling one. And here's one piece of research that I want to leave you with that I think makes it important for us to be intentional in the way we behave like these captains, when I was doing the research on curiosity, since it seems to be such a turbocharger, if you will, behind not only innovations, but also many other outcomes, like good decision making more inclusiveness in the workplace.

 

I saw a finding that really stood out to me and is the fact that the more experience and expertise we acquire, whatever role we have, whatever job we have, whatever industry we operate in, the last curious we become. And so one of the things that these captains on the pirate ship taught me is that it's okay to keep acquiring experience.

 

But we need to do so by holding on to our humility, not focusing on the many things that we know, but staying focused on what's left to learn. And how is it that focusing on this learning in any interactions in any aspect of our work could make us that type of Captain that our crew would use as his leader today, this Captain understood something really profound, because of the way their ships were organised.

 

They understood that respect, trust are not given to us by our bigger title is in the organisation we work for this sense of trust and respect, needs to be earned on a day to day basis. And when we again model rebellious behaviour, when we create the conditions for others, to bring out their best, I think we're in a better position of seeing our crew retain us as their captain. Thank you so much for listening, really curious for the conversation that will unfold the soon team I'm gonna bring you back into the scene.

Tim Campbell MBE  19:44  
And by magic, I returned back what an amazing perspective you take on being a curious Captain but having the humility not because of the fear that you might lose out, but actually how much more you've got to learn. So it's actually personally Important to go on that journey as well. And that being a core theme of what we're talking about today about learning new skills and adapting to new environment, that is such a wonderful thing. And I must admit, you've made me feel better about my lack of ability to sing, because I can be carrying. So that's good on both fronts. Amazing. Well, brilliant. Francesco, thank you so much for that.

Robert Rowland Smith  20:21  
Thank you very much indeed, Tim, thank you very much, indeed. And Francesca, so you don't feel left out because of Tim's egregious error there and not mentioning your book.

 

Here it is. Actually, I'm going to hold it up in front of the camera slightly longer than Matthew's book was held up. Because you know, since it's coming later, I want to balance things out. There you go. Little flock Francesco. Francesco, it's great to be with you, thank you for letting me manage this q&a with you.

 

And just to say to people in the audience, guys, if you want to use the chat function like some of you are doing already, I will try to pick out some of your questions and comments and feed them into this discussion, as well. So we have kind of more diverse voices, obviously picking up on this, and I think we've got about got about 14 minutes for this. And apologies, 38 minutes, 29 seconds is what we've got for this.

 

So we're working with the tyranny of the clock. And I think what I'd like to start off with is this is a this is a session billed as around rebels, I was thinking about the word rebel. And it reminds me a bit of the the use of the word original and creative, those used to be negative words, you should never be original or creative, because you'd sort of step out of line. Whereas the word rebel seems to have been kind of assimilated and incorporated. Now it's that's a wholly good thing. I think I want to ask you this. Francesco, maybe this is a slightly Mephistophelean question. But is there such a thing as a bad rebel anymore?

Professor Francesca Gino  22:00  
You can definitely take your rebelliousness to too far. And in fact, I have met people who have done so when I tried to decode what makes rebels who they are and makes them effective. I come up with curiosity, I come up with an appreciation for the sense of stretching and novelty, authenticity and vulnerability, which are connected. And then this idea of embracing diversity and perspective.

 

And usually when Rebels take things too far, is because yes, they're curious, yes, they have novel ideas to bring forward, but they lose sight of perspective. So they're all about their own view of the world, the way they would solve problems bringing ideas, but they become almost disrespectful of other views and other perspectives at the table. So usually I tell people, it comes, it can come from a good place. You want to move fast, you want to bring in innovative ideas, but be sure that you don't lose the sight of your broader perspective.

Robert Rowland Smith  23:11  
Okay, so we want rebels with a cause. Yeah, just to pick up on that. It makes me wonder actually, if there's a bit of a bias in all of this this favouring of the rebel. I mean, I imagine if we were having this well, we wouldn't be but if we were having this conference in North Korea, or something like that, speaking about the power of good rebels might might cause a few twitchy eyebrows and the among the powers that be?

 

So, you know, is it only because we live in this sort of democratic liberal society that we're now sort of getting all, you know, soft and cuddly about rebels these days?

Professor Francesca Gino  23:44  
Absolutely. I spend a lot of my time travelling across organisations and looking at how leaders across contexts makes decision. And I'm often struck by the fact that our experience and our expertise sometimes blinds us to what's possible, because we're so stuck on our view, and I think we will understand it, we come into discussions with colleagues were smart and capable. But we look at the world from our own angle. And so when I often ask leaders, even senior leaders to tell me what gets in the way of good collaborations or good brainstorming sessions, the answer is often ego.

 

We bring our these to the table, and we sort of roll our sleeves to get into fight to demonstrate to others, that we are right and they're wrong. Those are not the conditions that allow for that beautiful, cognitive diversity, open perspective and looking at problems from all sorts of dimensions. And I think we probably all agree that many of the problems, we're going to come our way and in fact After the pandemic has given us a view into that are going to be complex. And still, we really need to rely on differences in perspective to tackle them successfully and with creative ideas.

Robert Rowland Smith  25:12  
Yeah, we have a question from Duncan Middleton, who says, How do you keep egos out of the room, the kind of institution, the practice, the spirit of science is precisely that it's the sort of let's de personalise this subject. And let's just look at the hypothesis separate from the personalities involved.

Professor Francesca Gino  25:29  
I think it's difficult to do, but it can be achieved that I'm thinking about very accomplished directors at Pixar Animation Studios, they figure this out, they have brainstorming sessions, where the rules are that we're going to try to contribute to each other's ideas, and make them better. But what's interesting is that these are people who are trained to use those practices. And the reason is that our human nature pushes us in the wrong direction.

 

We're often in judgement mode. In fact, it's kind of strange that I'm agreeing so much with humanity, because usually, you throw an idea out there. And our quick reaction is not as good as mine, or that is not what I believe that we should be talking about. We're so often into the judgement mode, that it doesn't allow us to have that openness to the ideas that others are providing, even when they might prove us wrong. But the framing of a meeting of a discussion as let's solve this together, being very opening the rules on how we're going to go about this, I think are useful tools to use to reach that type of meeting where we're testing hypotheses, rather than proving each other's right and wrong.

Robert Rowland Smith  26:55  
Very good. Okay, what if I can't get together a group of great diverse people? For whatever reason? How do I and I fall into these stereotypical categories that Matthew was describing earlier? Obviously, how do I become more cognitively diverse without picking up the phone to somebody else?

Professor Francesca Gino  27:15  
So this is an exercise that I did myself after preaching all of these ideas, I think it was a couple of years ago, but I sat down and I said, you know, what, I'm curious to see who's part of my inner circle, meaning when I think about decisions I'm thinking through or decisions that I think are important for the work that I do, who do I tend to go to who are the colleagues that that reach out to you to get a second opinion, think through this together. And I wrote down their names. It was an exercise, I ran by myself. So I was very quick.

 

But also Honestly, my assessment of the, I think I came up with seven or eight names. These are the people who clearly I could visualise I go to them on a regular basis whenever I'm thinking through something that they want a second opinion on. And then I took another step. And this is the important one, I said, Now I'm going to rank them, scale one to five. And the ranking is the score is on Ow, similar they are to me in their way of thinking. So five, the very similar one very different. And again, I had to be honest, and it was a reflection exercise with myself random rather quickly. And then I had this moment that was really the perfect jaw dropping moment, since I look at the names of the scores, I only had four and five. So that's a problem. I think that often we don't recognise that that happens to us.

 

Diversity, if you will. It's an acquired preference. I love these type of conversations where I have people like Matt, you're like, oh, yeah, I agree with you, rather than people who ask the tough questions, and they challenge me. And so but I also knew, what are those one and two were in my context? Who are the colleagues who would be asking the tough question and it was very easy for me to swap out the fives and bring in the ones.

 

And so it requires a little bit of courage and being ready with a knowledge in that in that moment, that disagreement might not feel pleasant, being challenged might not feel comfortable, and yet it leads to better decisions. I can think of a situation where I was making a decision I was challenged as to review the data differently, where the decision did not improve. So it is helpful because this will be the research but we need to be open to that level of discomfort.

Robert Rowland Smith  29:56  
Okay, I'm not sure if I'd like to be one of your friends though. Francesca and Novell being secretly ranked on various criteria maybe before dinner party or something. There's a question in the chat. Because obviously, many of the people on the call here today, are HR leaders often that that part of their organisation, the question is, how can they encourage this different mindset in their organisation which appreciates the value of rebel talent?

 

And I suppose at the back of that, I don't know. But I imagine that the back of that question is this idea that a lot of people in HR have to fulfil set criteria about the kinds of people that they, they employ, and they know that and they train and so on, and they're very kind of performance oriented and might have, I don't know might have a more limited view of what performance is

Professor Francesca Gino  30:39  
one of the things that I would recommend, especially in the type of times that we're living through today, is to stop talking about diversity as a problem to solve. It gets a really negative narrative, let's talk about it as an opportunity to capitalise upon.

 

Now I get excited, I am curious about whatever it is that we can reach together, if we, in fact, to create the opportunity for diverse perspectives to come in. But also be aware of the fact that it is a hard work, it's much easier when people are agreeing, it's much more difficult when diversity in perspective are going to bring in conflict. And so really embracing the very simple idea that more diversity also means that we need to think differently about how to productively manage interactions among people, is something that needs more more discussion.

 

Robert Rowland Smith  31:47  
Yes, and it reminds me I mean, the other word as it's often coupled with diversity is that of inclusion, which is wonderful themes in this conference. And I suppose I wanted to add maybe up the ante a little bit, I don't know. But also think about exclusion here.

 

And I remember doing some work now on a consulting basis for the department of education in this country, where this question of excluding children from school was understood is very real. And to put it extremely crudely, it's much better for the child themselves, not to be excluded, but to remain in the class where it's much better for the rest of the class for that child to be excluded. Okay, because they're disruptive. And there's a wicked problem. And what on earth do you do with this? So I guess this is a question, maybe a slight tangent from where we've been going. But But since inclusion is such a big theme in relation to diversity, I guess what I'm asking is, what's the case for exclusion?

Professor Francesca Gino  32:42  
Yeah. So it's interesting, because where my mind went is to Microsoft, these move to growth mindsets, led them to all sorts of changes in the HR practices that they had. How do you think about high potential from the perspective of everybody has the opportunity to growth? And so in the way I was trying to think through this really important question is that all of them, people get left behind, whether it's an organisation or whether it's children in school, because we don't give them the right opportunities.

 

And so we just want to make sure that that is not happening. One of the beautiful pieces of work that comes from growth mindsets, comes from school environments. So Carol Dweck has done amazing work there. And for the very fact that you know that they have expectations of you, but also I'm there to support you, you can achieve something that is a higher level of performance, higher learning, etc. And so I just would like to make sure that exclusion is not happening. Because as a teacher, as a leader, I'm not giving you the right opportunities.

Robert Rowland Smith  33:58  
conscious of time, we've got nine minutes and 24 seconds. And I want to take us back to actually one of the comments in the in the chat. And please do do keep them coming. It's interesting to have your views. This is one from Natalie Sutherland. I find this fascinating, how do you differentiate between rebel thinking and poor performance?

 

And that got me thinking about some sort of creative people and creatives, artists and so on. And as we know, this is a bit of a stereotype obviously, but as we know, some creative people actually have a bit of a hard time belonging and following rules and organisations by kind of by definition, and we know some of the grey creatives are people who've been spurned or they kind of made pariahs or rejected from society and something much later that we come along and appreciate their ideas and think, oh, they were a genius, even though they were vilified at the time. So I'm slightly recasting this question to ask one about belonging and how difficult it can be actually for rebels to belong.

 

In an organisation, in fact, taking pride in not belonging as a source of their creativity and rebelliousness because they fear their belonging will dampen that and they'll begin to conform. So I think this is a question about the person who knows. But I think this is a question about the personality types of individuals who are creative, who are rebellious. And I guess sort of how to treat those people.

 

I'm conscious, for example, organisations who set up you know, skunk works or kind of intrapreneurial models where there's the big main mothership organisation, and then over here, they're all kind of creatives on the beanbag. So the thing we don't touch them until the end of the day kind of thing. What do you think about this? How are we actually from a kind of psychological maybe or emotional point of view how we deal with people who aren't who don't belong very easily, you know, who do turn up late who don't speak the corporate language, you are a bit difficult, in many ways, because that's, that's what comes with the rebelliousness.

 

Francesca, what do you what are you thinking about that?

Professor Francesca Gino  36:04  
What I was thinking is that we the reason why we tend to separate them is that we haven't figured out how to create environments where, in fact, both diversity and this sense of belonging exist. And so I think it's a call for every leader out there, every HR director out there to start doing the work differently.

 

And hopefully, we can be helpful on that on that journey. But if I think about the idea of belonging, as human beings, we all have these need of showing that we're unique in some ways, but also we want to be accepted by the group. And so bringing in diversity comes with this tension of yes, I want to demonstrate my uniqueness, but I also want to fit in. And I think we're gonna make some progress. When we think differently about being the leaders of those group.

 

How do we make sure the both happens that people feel that they can bring out that I was in DC, but also that they belong? If I go back, though, to some of the examples, and some of the rebels that I studied in my book, it took a lot of persistence. I mentioned the example of Massimo Bottura, you open his restaurant in 1995. He became the best restaurant in the world in 2016.

 

For the first few years, tradition bound Italians were just they, in his own words, wanted to see him dad, they pushed back on something different that he was bringing to the table. And so I think it's just a call for all of us, since we are part of those organisations, no matter what the context is, of doing our own part of inviting participation from different perspectives on showing appreciation for different points of view, for giving the people feedback and sort of cherishing their unique perspectives.

Robert Rowland Smith  38:16  
Yes, and I took great encouragement from what a great idea is to drop the dessert on the waiter. They're serving it just to say, Francesca, you've been asked for a link to your Microsoft article on here as well. So I can't flash that up. I don't have a copy of it to parade before the camera, unfortunately.

 

But yeah, perhaps I can come back because you know, our conversation has been reasonably wide, wide ranging list, we've spoken a bit about politics, we've talked about rebels, we've talked about inclusion, belonging, performance, quite a wide range of things, and your, your own presentations focused on all sorts of things. I mean, it's possible to get lost in all of this. It's a big subject, it has business aspects as emotional aspects, cultural aspects, and so on and so forth. What, What would you hope our audience to be taking away from this, perhaps today,

Professor Francesca Gino  39:04  
three things and I'm gonna go back to some of the characters and people that I mentioned in the initial 20 minutes. And it's a model and way of thinking that comes from each of the leaders that I brought forward from chaos. I think we all get to learn that we can be actors of change, if we so choose, if we're intentional.

 

So rather than sitting and complaining about why is it that we don't see more cognitive diversity in our organisation, let's all do our part. And think about every single interaction every single meeting how we can lead the way differently from the Tura. I would think about his model, he always says that traditions are very well received the experiments. Traditions are built to be rebuilt.

 

Again, if we want to talk All these complex problems, let's not just sit with what's comfortable and familiar. Let's push the boundaries in a constructive ways. And then from the pirate ships, let's just all be more like pirates. We think about the deposition that we have something that we need to earn on a day to day basis.

Robert Rowland Smith  40:21  
Very good. Thank you very much. Three points, very, very soundly made that thank you for entrusting me with virtual round of applause. There'll be a silent ovation coming across the internet.