Panel: How has the talent landscape been transformed?

Rosaleen Blair CBE  0:39  

Hello and welcome to our panel session on how the talent landscape has been transformed. I'm joined today by a fantastic panel of experts from across the globe. And let me introduce them to you.

Let's start with Robert Gasser. Robert is based in New York and Robert is the Chief Revenue Officer for revenue. We're also joined by Hannah Reed, Hannah's the people director for Europe, Middle East, India, and Africa at Apple. We're joined by Joe for LendKey. Joe's global head of talent acquisition at Morgan Stanley based in New York. Welcome, Joe. We have Louise Morton with us today. Louise is based in London. Louise is a partner and Global Head of transformation and change at Finsbury Glover herring. And finally, we're joined by Bob brothers. Bob is the executive director of talent strategy innovation of Bristol Myers Squibb.

Welcome to you all. The pandemic has offered a host of opportunities to reimagine the talent landscape and build a truly dexterous workforce dexterity. I'm really intrigued Hanna, in what changes have you seen?

 

Hannah Reid  1:52  

Yeah, thanks very much. It's been actually it's a I actually find this a really exciting time. I think when we first went into this, we didn't realise it was going to be for for as long as we've been in it. And actually the fact that now we're gonna have to live with the new normal as we're referring to it for many years to come and get getting comfortable with that. And I think what we've seen is an evolution over that time.

So I think initially, it was all about kind of survival for the what we thought was gonna be a few weeks. And so it wasn't, I would say almost strategic. At that point. It was the firefighting, like, fundamentally, how do we keep the business going. And depending on what sector you're in, that actually takes different shape and means something very different from appreciating the diversity of the of the panel from a UK and maybe a European landscape.

We were looking at, you know, furlough opportunities. And actually our focus on my HR standpoint was just how do we keep people paid? How do we keep them on the payroll? And how do we all learn? Like I hadn't actually followed anyone in my 18 year career? And so having conversations with peers about how are you approaching this and what what are you doing, and then after that we moved into, but that's not sustainable for a really long period of time. And also for the business that I was in at the time, actually, we were really fortunate that we didn't have to furlough too many people. And it was instead thinking, Well, how do we use our talent, and it was almost like this is a bad example, but I'm going to use it anyway. The EasyJet analogy, and I use it more from a business perspective.

So EasyJet, were kind of the first people in aviation to think differently about talent, right? So the person who checks you in can also be the person who greets you as you bought a plane, I'm like British Airways, it was a different person doing all of those. It's I say, it's a bad example, because obviously in aviation was something they could do right now, when there are no kind of planes taking off. But but it was more that thinking, how can we have people who were previously if it wasn't in events, doing something differently? And that's why I started by saying, actually, that can be quite exciting. Because often in your career, there's not always that opportunity to stop and think about doing something differently. So that's what we undertook to do.

So it's about how do we upskill people to do different work, so that we can continue to keep them employed, and also, so that they get some development and different opportunities. And now kind of fast forward to that now it is more strategic, because we know that this is the new norm. And so we start to think about which skills are those that have impact? Because even this format, right, this is a skill in itself. And I always think before joining a panel, was everyone else gonna be like, because I'm quite high energy.

And so you don't want to get on a panel, you're really like, Hi, everyone, and everyone's quite subdued. So that's a skill in itself, like, how do you taper that? And I was reading CIPD did some findings into 2021. And what leaders have said, have been the top areas for development and focus and they are actually communication being like 30% and the other was on the job and technical training. And there are people on this panel who, who I'm sure speak to this far, far better than I can say, on the on the job training part. I think that's where from a strategic standpoint, we're really thinking about well, what does that look like?

As you think more about hybrid working? How do you shadow you know, in inverted commas, how do you get exposure to leaders? How do you allow people who are new and trying to unboard in a kind of virtual environment into the organisation really accelerate and feel part of a culture. So for every part of employee lifecycle, I would say from onboarding, all the way through to kind of retention development, all the things that we see on the people side need, like reimagining, to your point and bringing that kind of future forward. So, so yeah, but I think Barack Obama, someone in his camp said, don't waste a good crisis. And I really think this is an opportunity for us to, to do something in this space. But yeah, I'll pause there for others to comment. Now, there's

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  5:31  

so much there, and I want to come back and try and unpack a little bit later. And, Joe, can you share some of your thoughts?

 

Joe Falencki  5:38  

I mean, and I think I think you hit it on the head, and I love the way you ended it there. You know, the thing I think I've spent a lot of time reflecting on over the past, I guess it's been 20, almost 20 months, since all of this started, is we've had this great opportunity to go back and look at things intentionally. And so everything from how we think about engaging talent, how we think about interviewing talent, how we think about onboarding, talent, how we think about developing talent, you've had to go back and requestion the intention you have behind it, versus the way you used to do it in the office.

A lot of times we talk a lot about, you know, things like culture and, and cultures is word that everybody talks about. And yet sometimes it's hard to actually say how do you put your finger on it? How do you communicate culture? How do you do it effectively, and then all sudden, you got to think about doing it in a virtual environment. But I think throughout all of this, and I think there's there's a theme even in in Rosaline, the questions that we've talked about today, of this idea of intentionality of this, this concept of being able to go back and take a really, really hard look. And now that we're slowly starting to come on the other side of this, what are the things? How do we get intentional about the things that we learned that we're going to keep?

Whether it's, you know, one of the ones that I love is I've gotten feedback from from managers who have said, you know, something, the video interview is actually more efficient as a result. So perhaps video interviewing may make more sense in the long run, than there's an in person component. But not all, all interviews have to be done. And I love that it's that idea of how do we get really intentional about the things we had to do to make them part of what we did. And so I think there's just, there's these great learnings that we can start to talk about together, as we think about it today.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  7:25  

I think that's probably a very good point to bring you into the conversation Robert.

 

Robert Carruthers  7:31  

Okay. I think, you know, our learnings, well, we're a training company. So we were training in the midst of the pandemic, couple of 1000 entry level software engineers in the United States.

And we're doing that five campuses around the US. And we had to pivot very quickly. So we had to move people out of housing and go to remote learning. And so remote learning is a very, very interesting exercise versus remote working. And so we've learned a lot in terms of remote learning and how to keep people, you know, intensely focused, stimulated throughout the course of and eight, nine, sometimes 10 hour day, because we have a compressed training model over the course of 10 to 12 weeks before we deploy people into into enterprise, the enterprise technology groups. So it was I think, for us, that was a huge pivot. We've learned a lot about remote learning,

I think, though, that we're going to pivot back to in person learning to campus learning, because we do believe that you lose a little bit of the community in terms of how associates how they interact with each other, how they, how they support each other, how they support each other after learning. And so I think we've learned that there's, there's some great benefits to remote learning, but there's also some some great benefits to the in person learning. And on the balance, I think we're probably going to pivot back to infer some some mixture of the two. The other thing that's been really interesting is that we've we've trained and deployed 2000 software engineers over the course of the last year, and none of them have gone into a physical space. And they're all entry level. So they can this is all they know.

In fact, yesterday, I think I was the first one of the US banks made an announcement that that, you know, our folks had to now deployed the plane Oh, or Tampa, or Chicago or New York. And we came as a shock to the system, right? I mean, these folks have been even sitting in front of their, their screens for the last year. So, you know, for us, that's also it's a, it's gonna be interesting to see how they pivot and go back to, to in person working. And, and I think we kind of have a gender and I wouldn't call it a generation but maybe a sliver of a generation of at least technologies that have never sat in a in a pod in a team have never interacted with with a hiring manager. I'm face to face. So it's I think it's going to be very interesting to see how they how they respond. But, but we're confident, you know, they'll they'll, they'll adapt. But those are the two for us. Those are the two very, very important learnings I think we've had from from the from the pandemic.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  10:17  

I'm very keen to come to to Louise and Bob, but just on that point, because it was something that Joe just mentioned. And Robert, how have you managed to to allow them have any sense that the culture of these organisations?

 

Robert Carruthers  10:30  

I think that's been very difficult, I think that, you know, they, I think there's a touch and feel that goes along with that. I mean, I've worked for JP Morgan, I've worked for McKinsey I've worked for I've been very fortunate to work for great cultures, and it to you walk in the door, go up the escalator, walk onto the trading floor, you know, it's it's really hard, I think, to imagine that.

So I think there's a, there's a people culture, and there's a culture culture, right. And I think there's an edifice that goes along with that when I first worked at JP Morgan, I remember walking into 23, Wall Street, you know, which is on the corner across from the New York Stock Exchange, and I remember being in all, there's this chandelier, and there's these partner desks everywhere.

And I thought to myself, I'm sorry, Joe, that's the evil cousin of Morgan Stanley. But but, you know, I remember walking in there and seeing the chandelier and saying, Oh, my God, how did I get here? You know, I, of course, I was, you know, extraordinarily lucky, I hit the lottery. But that I think that's been lost in all this. And I, you know, I think there's been some great benefits of the pandemic. But I think there's some things little things that maybe add up to some very profound changes, particularly for entry level people. And that's where we live, obviously. So I'll stop.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  11:54  

Thank you, Louise, let's, let's move on to your thoughts.

 

Louisa Moreton  11:58  

So much covered already. And I love hearing all these different perspectives and racing, I think what I might pick up on your question you talked about, or asks about workforce dexterity. And I guess, you know, sort of reflecting on that. I think it's a really interesting question, because I think the truth is that we've all been dexterous for years, moulding ourselves to fit rigid, inflexible organisational structure structures. And I think what's happening now is that organisational structures are being reshaped to fit around us.

So I think really, what we've demonstrated is that we need organisational dexterity more than workforce dexterity. And I think what you're what Hannah Robertson and Jeff talked about is all the things that they're putting in place, or they're thinking about actually to make their structures and organisations more dexterous, you know, the things that are changing at the moment are really fundamental. It's the paradigm, it's the construct, it's the mindset. And I've been talking for a long time about how is it that that kind of the concept of work and the structure hasn't really changed since the industrial era. And even two years ago, I didn't think I've seen that happen in my lifetime. And I felt like I was talking about it and writing about it and the winds, and yet, here we are watching organisations reshape themselves around humanity and people. So I think it's really exciting.

And I'm working with a number of clients at the moment on future of work strategies. So how they put that together and how they communicate it. And we're always starting with principles before we get to practicalities. So how do you use the word strategic, which really struck a chord, and then Joe talks about intentional, which is a word I think a lot of us are using at the moment. Because it's really powerful if you start with a principle. So you know, rather than a conversation about is it too, or is it three days a week in the office, where we start getting kind of into the nitty gritty, it's actually elevating it and agreeing how to approach the task from a principles based perspective. So that might be we trust people to get their work done and see, or we won't just dictate, we'll discuss, or we'll accept that we'll get things wrong, because this is a lifetime change to anything that we're embarking on. Or we won't expect to see rapid change or to get it right. So the the principles aren't the same for every organisation.

But I'm finding that that's really helping as a kind of executive, but also the people who are going to be rolling this out, to understand the scale of the change, but also to be really excited by the scale of the opportunity and not to race into it, but to take time because if we've been prepared to wait several 100 years for this, then even a year or two might be worth it.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  14:44  

As always, that that really goes to values and cultures, but are you seeing organisations that have in embracing host a whole scale sort of change programmes to underpin and support it?

 

Louisa Moreton  14:54  

It's a great question. I think for lots of organisations. It's quite early days for that we're certain We're working with a number where we're actually talking about, there's a phase now until depending on which country you're in, let's call it September, we're actually the future isn't ours, we're following guidelines and rules.

And we still need to do things to either get the people back in or support people. But then we've got the future that we own and direct, where I think we're seeing most discussion around culture and behaviours is around a leadership and management level. So to that point about do we trust people to get their work done unseen, but equally, and some of the others have alluded this to this already, informal learning, which is so important, or employee experience, which is about being in a place and absorbing it, actually, what's the responsibility of leaders and managers to help do that? So very small aside a number of years ago, I worked with a law firm, quite a number of them, as you'll remember, we're looking at property footprints. And actually, one of the really big areas of discussion was about how do we protect the trainee experience, because actually, we may want to cut desks and save office space and actually roll out to clients.

But fundamentally, the training offer that we give them is about being surrounded by people with more experience and absorbing it by listening in. So actually, from a kind of property, from a technology in it. And from a people and culture perspective, we were thinking about, how do we implement this workplace or future of work with new strategy in a way that still allows people to thrive and grow in the same way that they did. A

nd I guess maybe, maybe the flip side, God or intentional is about also avoiding unintentional consequences. So we have clients worried about well worth a bunch of us working mothers think glass is great, I can hold a senior career. And I can still take my kids to school three days a week, and then five years down the track, we look at our career and realise we kind of missed some acceleration at some point, and we're not quite sure how that happened. So I think there's also something about leaders being mindful of how to be intentional and how to avoid unintentional consequences.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  17:03  

Fantastic, Louisa, thank you. And Bob...

 

Bob Gasser  17:07  

yes. Yeah, you know, I'm just going to kind of build on what the other panellists had commented on, it was a, you know, the benefit of hindsight, it was, it was actually a unique situation for us, because we had just come off one of the biggest mergers in pharmaceutical history, you know, leading into in the last year, and we're already you know, when you're going through a merger, that size actually ended up being for companies coming together, changing cultures, technology, integration, issues, things like that. So, you know, we closed the deal. And then shortly thereafter, COVID started to pop up a little bit. And obviously, we had the, you know, the week or two there where it was complete chaos, and you're trying to, you know, put the onboarding programmes and that together. But in hindsight, I think similar to what Joe was saying, it actually was a catalyst that allowed us to really pull through on on the business that we needed to do, we ended up hiring, I think it was like 60%, of a volume spike from the previous year. So you know, everything from digital platforms and interviewing, it really allowed us because everyone was kind of already in a change mindset.

We didn't need to go through those typical protocols have changed management of communication, and all this, like project management oriented parts of a project that lead you know, it can take six months or a year to do something like that. We're doing it overnight, and really making very quick decisions at that point, because we had to in order to pull through for the business. You know, we also, were going from a global service, this type of Oregon operating model for talent, to more of a, we're going back to more of a COA II where, you know, kind of everything fits within that talent landscape. So that also allowed us to move that fairly quickly, and then start to go out with brand new communication strategies and really get in front of that work. You know, when you're talking about dexterity, you know, we're able to really start to kind of shape our talent organisation to mobilise into that dexterity, you know, without having to go through a formal process.

So, you know, kind of getting to where we are today, the hiring continues to be very high. But now we're starting to look at some of those internal strategies. And we're actually in a better position, I think, today because of all this, and that we were able to probably been three to four years of growth in the last year. So that's, that's what I was.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  19:26  

I mean, you talked about the importance of getting out of the firefighting and really sort of now moving into the whole area around you skilling training communications. And have you got any really good examples of some of these things that you've implemented in the business and sort of the impact that they've had? And it's very early days.

 

Hannah Reid  19:47  

Yeah, actually, probably also picking up on kind of what Louisa said, which is, there are already organisations that were doing some of this before, right So, so not every organisation has been on been on a journey and I was actually the consulting model and Interesting that kind of Robert talked to that in terms of where he's worked before, and I'm sure Joe will attest to when you're out at client site. For a lot of the time, actually, this was already a challenge for those organisations is how do you build a community when you're not at clients like, right? So when you're back in the office, and actually consulting firms have done this for a long, long time very well, and establishing a day where everybody comes back into the office to build a sense of community.

Right. So it isn't actually a new idea in that sense. And I think, what what I've seen done really well is kind of rewarding those behaviours, right? So almost, again, consulting time, but kind of that firm contribution, you know, what have you done to improve this culture? What have you done to bring people together, and everybody subscribed to it, right? It wasn't, it wasn't like you have buy in, because actually, that's how you're also measured, there's a kind of an accountability over this is your organisation too. And so it's also your responsibility to come back to the centre and to the core, and be part of something. So I think that works well, in the end of the year, there's kind of an assessment over who's done this really well. And it's almost a celebration of people who it really embody that.

And so I think that can translate to any organisation when when you're kind of thinking about these hybrid models, and how do you get people back together? How do you build a sense of community, and what we've talked about in culture, because the culture like thrives on people come together? So I think that's one example. And kind of similar again, to what Robert was talking about. And and I'm intrigued by an interesting that learning right about, you know, the in classroom versus online, because I've been trying to kind of get my hands on some rich data that which which is best, and I can't quite find that find the answer. But if you think about organisations, where people are all remote, then again, this has been the way that people kind of came together.

For me, pre pandemic, most of my clients have always been Amina bass. So we were always on, you know, on zooms on WebEx is whatever the platform, it wasn't an unusual change for me to, to flip to this mode of working in the same way it has been for other individuals.

But what can happen and that I've seen work well is, you could be left behind, like the worst feeling is a person who is the only one that dialled in, remember the conference that that was even worse, there wasn't even a video, it was just a speaker in the middle of the room that everyone forgot about until I left the room. It was like, oh, sorry, there was someone on the line. But what's been done really well is but we've got either technology that supports that kind of infrastructure.

So you know, when you're in a room and the cameras moving around, and it's all for when you're in the room, but at least the people who are not in the room feel part of kind of the conversation or discussion, or where everyone's on WebEx, even if you're in the same room, right, just to make people feel more included. So these are just really small kind of tangible things that organisations have done, I think long before even the pandemic that we can just learn from as we move forward.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  22:45  

And to your to your point on the I think one of the big benefits of the pandemic was the fact that actually, it was a great leveller, it really, really sort of I think accelerated inclusion. It was it became much more obvious, actually, who was the voice that was always in the hand that was always in here, and sort of excluded those water cooler

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  23:04  

conversations. Has anyone got a view as to how we're going to kind of maintain that? So how do we? How do we take the best of that as we move into this hybrid world? Joe, do you have thoughts on that?

 

Joe Falencki  23:14  

It's interesting, I was reflecting on what Louisa and Bob and Hannah just said, there's a there's a thread here that I think is interesting, I think gets Rosaline, which is, you know, Louisa, you talked a lot about, you know, we've been we've been waiting for hundreds of years for this change to happen. And there's a little bit of I think, Bob, you talked about because I know I've been I've been speaking on the concept of pent up demand as a result of the pandemic.

And I think your hiring comments, Bob are exactly that there's almost like this pent up demand. There's all that and, and trust me, given I'm in the office today, there's you know, people are seeing each other for the first time in a while there is pent up demand of that around culture and around connecting.

I think the the piece that I think it I keep coming back to though is what Lisa said is, this may take a couple of years. And there are there are going to be these moments these footfalls I think, what is what I what my biggest hope in all of this is that, you know, during the pandemic, I you know, I have three children. And one of the things that was nuts as you start to think about things like birthday parties, right? And celebrate birthday parties, for your kids in the midst of the pandemic. And what it forced is it forced a level of innovation I don't think we've ever seen for parent you're like, This is what a birthday party is and has always been in this is what you would do. And then all of a sudden you're like, well, the goal is how do you make your child feel special on their birthday? And then you build from there and we I've seen so many different crazy ideas, whether it's it's surprising parties to drive bys to all these different ideas, that innovation with the clear goal in mind, I think, Rosalynn, that's what it gets back to as we start to think about how this how we sustain How we like how we continue to drive this is least getting back to the principle what is the principle we're driving towards? And we may experiment all around that over the next couple of years. And I think that's where the stage is really exciting and really fun. So,

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  25:15  

yeah, I mean, I think Louise's point about principle was so well made. And I suppose it's that permission to actually get stuff wrong. It's permission to try it's permission to fail. Robert, I know you're keen to come in. I'm

 

Robert Carruthers  25:28  

no, I'm just listening. No, there's, I think those are all really interesting points. I think the other thing is, there's a, there's a remote talent revolution going on here, too. I think that, you know, people are not necessarily going to want to come back to New York, they're not necessarily going to want to come back to Austin, they're not necessarily going to want to come back to San Francisco. Or to London, for that matter. Although I come back to London. I lived there for three years, I'm pretty happy.

But I think that that's a really interesting challenge in terms of retention. Right. So we now have a much more distributed workforce than we had before. And, as I, as I, as I alluded to, earlier, in terms of our associates, they're now grappling with, oh, my gosh, I gotta, I gotta move from Minneapolis to Tampa. But, you know, even our own workforce, our corporate workforce has now become more distributed. So, you know, how do you retain folks that had been hired during the pandemic, who are now absolutely locked in to working remotely, are very comfortable doing it, and are comfortable in their community and don't necessarily want to want to want to relocate to major metropolis around the world.

So I think that's going to be a kind of a hidden challenge for organisations. As as we shift back. You know, I grew up as a trader. So Joe, I get a lot of energy from walking onto the trading floor. And the traders and salespeople they really never went away. Right. They were they were there, right? They were throughout the pandemic.

So, you know, that's, that's how about investment bankers, and analysts and Associates, and consultants, and, you know, they're all they've all scattered to the wind. Right. And, and I think it's gonna be interesting to see whether or not people make decisions based on on location, and not necessarily organisation. And I think that that's, that's gonna be a challenge for some, some big enterprises, I think, at this stage of the game.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  27:37  

But it's also obviously a huge opportunity to bring very different talents in 

 

Robert Carruthers  27:42  

Absolutely, I think that yeah, so what I'm what I'm what I'm alluding to, is I think organisations have to be flexible, more flexible than they might have been otherwise, in terms of, you know, letting folks work remotely. And in retaining that talent, I think it's going to be I think it's gonna be a big challenge. I really do. And particularly, and we see it in the transitions from millennials to Gen Zers.

You know, there's, there's a very profound shift going on, right? There's a quality of life number one, right, it's not about my career, it's about quality of life. That's, that is the banner, right? That is the mantra that they that they follow, irregardless of the organisation. And so it's going to be, I think it's truly the bottom of the pyramid, it probably will be even more profound.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  28:32  

And well, given the huge change and transformation that you are getting, 

 

Robert Carruthers  28:37  

Robert, not Bob,

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  28:38  

I know it's Bob I'm asking the question to! So Bob, and in the context of sort of the change that you've been through as an organisation against a backdrop of the pandemic, you're probably almost ahead of some of us in terms of some of these experiences, some of the integration points, any, any gems of wisdom that you can share with us in terms of learnings?

 

Bob Gasser  29:05  

Um, well, you know, we do have multiple locations, global organisations. So, you know, I kind of look at it, as you know, and certainly, PMS were a little bit more traditional in that respect. As far as going in the office, we're going back to a hybrid. I think the one everyone's kind of looking forward to normalise and I don't know if, if, if we will get there, you know, because I think there's going to be aspects of everything to kind of Roberts point, some people are gonna want to work from home, some people are going to want to be collaborative in any office.

So I think you're going to see maybe the rise of technology and process that kind of, you know, brings some of that together a little bit more. You know, so as far as, you know, what the future holds.

The one thing we know is it's going to be different, you know, and I think it's going to take a little while to get there. So I think, you know, maybe some of the cultural things, some of the learning and just, you know, offering up opportunities for people like get together and start thinking maybe out of the box from one of these traditional ways, you know, to kind of, you know, refocus the workforce and bring, you know, culture and collaboration, maybe through other efforts, and, you know, and using digital technology to bring that, you know, to the forefront, but I do I agree with Robert, I think it's going to take a lot of time, you know, and, you know, I think companies are going to have to adjust and, you know, for the, for the type of talent that everybody's going after now, you know, this is digital talent, the soft skills, things like that, I think, to some degree, there's going to be trade offs as well. You know, it's good to have these hub locations. But, you know, to get to some of this talent, I think we're gonna have to open the doors a little bit and be a little bit more inclusive, which certainly, digital technology allows that to happen. So

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  30:47  

and just building on Bob's point, as we think about sort of your your existing workforce and those new skills that we're going to need in the future. How are you thinking about that?

 

Joe Falencki  31:00  

So I think it's, it's interesting, I think, fortunately for us, we're, we're a big recruiter of, of campus talent. And I think this this notion of how do we continue for years, Wall Street and other places have infused new talent that is developing skills, and really building your workforce from there. And I think I always go back to in all of this is we've talked about, you know, whether it's the location side of things is, is how do you start to think about a workforce strategy?

How do you think about your bike build, borrow strategy? And, you know, part of this is, is how are you? You know, so with the bill, how are you equipping for the future? How are you recruiting folks that you see potential, and you're building them and training them and bringing them along? And I think that gets back to some of the, you know, comments, I know, that Robert had made around how we're training and handy, I think you've talked a little bit about and Louisa around how do we actually think about the training and the trainee type programmes, and continuing to drive those forward.

But then there's this opportunity as well to to, you know, take advantage of things like the gig economy, to be able to bring in these these these these smaller skills, or not small skills, these different skills that you may only need for a short period of time for part of that transformation, or whatever it might be. And I think there continues to be an appetite to explore that a little bit more, and be able to use that as as part of the broader Workforce Strategy.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  32:24  

Thank you, Joe. And I think go go back to sorry, Louise, you I think you're onto something anyway,

 

Louisa Moreton  32:29  

I was gonna say just on the point about skills are going to look at it from a slightly different perspective. And again, probably something I've talked about for a long time. But I think one of the really exciting things that we've seen is this new need for when we say people manager, we actually really mean people, we don't mean skill manager, or Delivery Manager or output manager, we mean somebody who needs people. You know, one of the things that I think last year changed was, and I know it sounds like a buzzword, but I believe in it really passionately as empathetic leadership, transparency, honesty, humanity.

And actually, those aren't skills that, you know, I won't give a generalisation. It's not that nobody's invested in them. But they haven't always been valued. And they haven't always been trained, we've generally promoted people for excellence at skill or excellence at delivery, or becoming more and more specialised, but I think one of the skills that we're going to have to focus on it just coming back to the point that that Robert was making, you know, how, what are the skills that are going to retain the skills in your business, because what we can't be doing is training people in technical skill and losing them before we actually got the value back of that training.

So you know, we know that people are looking for organisations with a really strong sense of purpose, that deliver a really meaningful experience and the meaning is about the work that I do. But it's also about the sort of wider contribution that we make. And, you know, this idea of really focusing on on people and networks. So I know we talked about and I'm sure come on to inclusion, it was a great leveller, but actually, there's such a big risk that people get left behind. And right now we're in a situation where we remove people's commutes to give them more family time, and we make enable them to work further away, which certainly here in the City of London, not living anywhere near the city of London helps you financially significantly, but then can you afford to get in?

So I do think we're seeing this kind of reframing of work. I guess if I'm an average line manager or an average leader, I might be looking over my shoulder a bit and wondering if I'm really kind of properly equipped. And I think helping colleagues to build their networks and the consultancies, again, I think do it really, brilliantly, actually.

An even very small example, but even where I am, colleagues were meeting each other for walks when it was illegal. We can work together could go in the office, but actually, you know, what can you do? We're having coffee chats and zooms so you get to the point about creative birthday parties, why would you keep your if your skill is just a skill? If you're really into what you do, why would you stay where you are? Why wouldn't you move for an extra 1000 bucks. So we're going to have to make that experience strong enough that we retain the skills within the business to deliver on the strategy.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  35:19  

Louisa think that's a brilliant point. And I think there's something around in that around the vulnerability of leaders and actually being okay to show vulnerability and that authenticity, and how do we really? How do we encourage that in a in an appropriate way inside the organisations? I'm really interested in how you are not in furiously when Louise was speaking there, have you? Have you seen or experienced that, you know, changes in, in, in leaders in your personal experience across, you know, in the last sort of six months or so in terms of actually, you know, that that sort of expectation that we're looking to see the human leader?

 

Hannah Reid  35:57  

Absolutely, I think there's almost been a kind of a calling out for it, because people were experiencing. So like, what we often don't talk about in the pandemic is how much loss there has been, right. So if we think about the numbers across the world of people who have, who have passed away, unfortunately, that means that our workforce has been impacted substantially by bereavement, and by grief, and we actually don't take that much time to talk about it, or people have been really ill, or care of people who are ill, or worried that people are going to get ill.

And so in those moments, you're less interested in how well the company is performing, you're really interested in hearing from your leader, and having someone gives you space to feel to talk about how you feel, and you're not able to just turn to someone and have that conversation. So instead, you know, those forums for space are so crucial. And absolutely, you can then differentiate those who are truly leading.

So I love what Louise was saying about kind of that leadership better than managerial supervisory, like we've progressed on right significantly, and what we look for and beyond functional expertise, which is exactly what the reason was talking to, and how we'd have typically promoted people. So yeah, empathy, empathy is so crucial. And it also links to people in terms of that retention piece, like I want to work for somebody who makes me feel like I'm valued. And that's what you get from that type of leader and, and kind of, again, touching on the, the diversity piece, which I know we've kind of been alluding to, as we've gone through.

And that's what we've looked for in leadership, we've looked for people who have been prepared to open up the knowledge space, to really go deep to broaden their own understanding and allow that into the organisation. And to move away from kind of the rock I'll use a US term a kind of woke washing and just like brandishing out there that we've got the solution, we've learned everything. And instead of being able to be vulnerable, I actually didn't appreciate this. I didn't know this, Hey, look, what I've learned, what have you learned, and really allow the space rather than rushing and making it look like you know, progress has been made.

Instead of being honest, that we've got a long way to go and inviting people in to go on that journey, I think is so crucial, particularly for ind and particularly in this space of the pandemic as well that I've definitely seen that just to distinguish and an example I using this actually, against story because it's a global, please. But Greg Clark, he's the he was the chairman of the Football Association so far.

Yeah, of course, you don't know who he is. So soccer, rather than which not a prolific speaker in many ways, but because of the profile of football kind of on a European level. And then definitely in the UK was a huge figurehead and was being interviewed in Parliament, about ind like in Parliament. This is not an insignificant interview that he was having, as a leader of an organisation which has been, you know, throughout the press criticised for their approach to dealing with racism, and was almost being positioned as a thought leader and completely ruin the interview and ended up having to resign in like the space of five minutes being racist, sexist, and, you know, every other ist because he really just didn't do his homework.

And so whilst organisations can allow space to create the right policies, and all the frameworks that if the leader doesn't buy into it, right, if there's not that authenticity, to engage with a subject to truly understand it, then instead of going to present yourself as a thought leader, what happens is, you're undone in that moment about the fact that you haven't necessarily done the homework. So, so yeah, that's why my head was gonna kind of go furiously when Louisa was talking.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  39:21  

Yeah, and actually lose it to Hannah's point, you know, I know you do a huge amount of work around the whole ESG space.

And obviously, I think a lot of us, you know, there's an element of cynicism around, you know, their organisations, you know, it's a tick box exercise as, as opposed to it's the right thing to do. And it makes commercial sense, and it's great for our people. And have you seen any shift in terms of, of how people are thinking in that space? Again, Robert, you're nodding furiously, but let me just go to Louise first.

 

Louisa Moreton  39:49  

Yes. And then I'm gonna pass Robert, cuz I want to know what you've got dramatically. And so, you know, 20 years ago, I wrote a little thesis for the agency group. I sitting on them on what was then known as corporate social responsibility, and was slightly laughed out of town. But at the same time, the agency leaders did indeed go off and set up practices around it. And what's happened over time is yes, there's been a sense of, oh, we probably ought to do something. And I'm not saying it, we've got the likes of Patagonia and Unilever, they've built their business models, but broadly, what has really shifted in the past year and a half.

And actually, it's been pushed by things like that lives matter. And it's being pushed by other groups and by the pandemic. And the sense of inequality is what's really exciting is the push is now coming from people like investors, and analysts. So you know, when you're trying to convince a CEO or a CFO that it's important, actually, when the investors are asking them, tell me what you've got here, because I can actually see a correlations business performance. And meanwhile, your people are saying, remind me why I come into work every day or given I've got four offers on the table, why should I take yours? So I think there's been this, you know, it's a sort of, it's a moment in time where lots of different forces and a lot of energy has come together.

And people have started to see that there is actually a there's a business case for it. In fact, I was just talking to a client this morning about how she's kind of established a DI function. And you're one of the things that she said was, to the point we've already discussed, we haven't rushed this, you know, we've already taken quite a long time to come to this awakening. So why would we then try and with something out in a week that would be completely insincere? Actually, this is a long term change programme.

We can't announce tomorrow, Net Zero 50% diversity, utterly meaningless. And they've really spent the time and I love Hannah's expression about doing the homework, I call it doing the hard work, it's the same thing, getting leaders on board, identifying the case, getting internal buy in, bubbling it up from the inside, coordinating with investors and analysts. So I think that's that, that's the key thing that's changed is that the pressures on I feel a bit sad, but it took kind of investors and SASB to really make the change, and it didn't happen naturally. But the change is here. A

nd I think, you know, if people see that our businesses are more profitable, they've been run better, they're a magnet for talent, then it becomes self fulfilling. And it is one of the areas to Hannah made this point very eloquently. You don't have to say tomorrow, but absolutely brilliant, all of it. What you can say is, you know, here's our vision, here's the goals that we've set ourselves. And here's the plan, we've got to get there. If you miss any of those component parts, I think you get to cynicism, and we've seen some ESG launches recently, where the goals look great, but the plan isn't clear.

And you know, we've all seen kind of this emphasis there 40% women on boards, well, if we haven't managed that, in however many years when 51% of the population is female, then we can't assume we're going to achieve it with anything else. So that idea of really taking the time to do the hard work and being a bit open about where you're strong. And where you need to do do the work. There's, there's, there's forgiveness out there for companies that look like they are sweating it a bit,

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  43:03  

Sweating it a bit and willing to be vulnerable as well, by the sounds of Louisa. And, Robert.

 

Robert Carruthers  43:10  

I mean, Louisa just stole my thunder there. It was having having sat in the chair, you know, she'll have a public company, I will tell you that she nailed it. Right, the you know, companies in the US at least have been they've been talking to talk for a long time. But now they're walking the walk because the ESG movement amongst shareholders is is changing everything. BlackRock, Vanguard State Street, all the index funds are now laser focused on ESG. And so if you're the CEO, you're the you're the board member, you are now going to be assessed and with KPIs. And it requires a completely different leadership, I think, servant leadership as opposed to Roman emperors, right?

You've got to dig down into the organisation and make sure there's continuity in terms of this process. Because within a large organisation, when you get down six or seven or eight pay grades below the CEO, it all kind of dissipates. So you need to drive that yourself. You cannot you cannot allocate that to somebody else. You can't just hire a chief DNI officer, you have to be engaged every single day.

And you know, that that requires an intensity, I think on this issue, that at least in the US, enterprises, and I think in the UK, too. There just has never been that continuity of focus or intensity of focus. And when your share price starts to starts to falter, because it's not part of ESG funds owned by Blackrock or Vanguard or State Street. You're, you're you're gonna giddy up. You're gonna you're gonna be very, very very focused, right so it's Capitalism during the pandemic, what we saw is capitalism and altruism have kind of intersected. And it wouldn't have happened without that.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  45:08  

So fundamentally, it's fundamentally Rob, but it's what our people are looking for. So people want to join organisations and employer total, absolutely, those organisations are the ones that will win the war for talent, and love to do, I think our audience would love to hear from all of you just about, you know, you must all have your most valuable learning from the last 12 months.

So I would I would love as just to close on just, you know, a nugget from each of you. And, Bob, can I reach out to you, first of all, to share your nuggets?

 

Bob Gasser  45:40  

For sure, yeah, I'm the one. What really came through to me, you know, during the past year and a half is, you know, it's kind of fundamental is identifying and putting a lot of energy into identifying the right, your leaders, your team members, you know, because you can't be everywhere, you know, so having the right people and empowering them to make decisions.

And I think that would be the second piece is that I saw is, you know, really allowing people in, you have to, you know, certainly they can be data driven, but you have to make a decision and move forward, even if it's just incremental.

And I think a lot of times now, companies get so caught up in, you know, consultative, you know, agendas and things like that, that, that they kind of stall out, you know, and that's the one thing I've learned over the last year and a half that, you know, when we had the right people making the right decisions, and really empowering and keeping the engagement high, we're able to move very quickly on a lot quicker than I even thought we could have. So

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  46:41  

thank you. Joe.

 

Joe Falencki  46:44  

I'm gonna go back to my 'I' word, intentionality. I think the pandemic has taught this this sense. You know, I think about oftentimes intentionality in terms of how you spend your time, calendar management. So thing every person hates to do, I guarantee you folks listening, probably hate what their calendars look like today. But the reality is, is being intentional about where you're spending your time making sure that you are, you're allocating your time in the best way possible to the decisions that matter the most.

You know, in and I've watched, I've watched leaders do this really well. And in the pandemic, that intentionality became so much important, and so much more important. And as we transition out, I think that remains this this key lesson is, what is how are you being intentional about the things you're doing? Because at the end of the day, everything is going to communicate?

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  47:37  

And Robert?

 

Robert Carruthers  47:40  

I would say, you know, I, I've learned a lot during the pandemic. I think that I love this Jim Mattis quote, it's called he basically he was the, for those of you haven't heard of him, he was a the commandant of the US Marine Corps. And he always talks about he has a quote called recruit for attitude, train for skill. And I think I love that quote, because I think during the pandemic, what it what it required was, people needed to have grit.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  48:09  

That's not just I think that's fantastic. I want to leave the last word, to Hannah because I think you've given us pearls all the way through. So Hannah, the last word for you

 

Hannah Reid  48:18  

thought one was going to be actually in the end, all we have is time, which is a Steve Jobs quote, but but I'll give a different one, just because Joe touched on that. And I guess it's, you can't outperform your own level of self esteem. And so I definitely think that we've seen that in some of the leaders and how they've shown up in terms of their own moral compass as well. So yeah.

 

Rosaleen Blair CBE  48:38  

I thank you all. This has been an incredibly engaging, uplifting session. I think you've given the audience so much to think about. Thank you.